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osewalrusSo I've had some thoughts, and figured I'd share them here (rather than FB) since this is a smaller group.
1. I do think there is a real difference between the predators like Harvey Weinstien and Roger Ailes, who appear to delight in deliberately exercising their power, and those like Charlie Rose and Glenn Thrush, who appear to be genuinely puzzled that their conduct was somehow wrong. Not that I excuse the results, but the pathology is different and in trying to address any condition it is always appropriate to understand the mechanism of action.
You know those articles that are all about how just because a woman is polite to you does not mean she is flirting. Or, more relevant, how the woman behind the counter who is nice to you is just doing her job and is not hitting on you. Lots of guys seem clueless on this point. That sadly seems to be the case for a bunch of these guys with positions of power (or sometimes even not so much power). Women are being nice and interested because they are like "Oh, important career networking/being friendly with colleague" while guy seems to think "oh wow, she is totally in to me." Worse, these guys apparently think that (a) as long as they take "no" at some point (since, y'know, the first "no" is really just being coy -- right?) that no harm is done and everything is cool.
Worse, some of these guys then get resentful that woman "led them on" by being all friendly and professional and stuff. Guys, NO ONE LED YOU ON!! Do not retaliate by spreading all kinds of rumors or you will definitely, unambiguously graduate to Grade A scum.
Guys, do not assume that a female colleague is into you. Srsly. I know some people (mostly guys) think it is unfair or unnatural for people (by which they generally mean guys) not to socialize at work and treat their work environment as an opportunity to find romance. Just don't. Really. Just. Don't. Everyone will be much happier. The likelihood that you are forgoing a positive relationship experience for both you and the target of your affection is extremely small relative to the likelihood that you are creating an utterly awkward situation that will poison the workplace and may well cause some woman considerable emotional stress.
2. Over the course of my career, I have labored mightily to fight gender stereotypes. I have been pleased and privileged to have been mentored by a number of women. I have attempted to pay it forward by mentoring young folks -- women and men -- who are interested in what I have to teach. In a number of cases, this has resulted in close personal friendships.
When I read about these incidents, I feel tainted. It makes it that much harder for those of us men who are trying to do their jobs and actually eliminate (or at least reduce) gender inequality in the workplace. Because no matter what my marital status, or past history, any woman must have lurking in the back of her mind that I might unexpectedly turn into some sort of ravening uncontrolled sex beast. Worse, both any woman I am mentoring and me personally must be aware that perfectly normal interactions with my male colleagues may be viewed with suspicion by our colleagues because the colleague in this case is a woman.
This is why I totally hate "the Rock Test" or any other advice that is "just treat women like you would men." It is simply false. I can say to one of my male colleagues, including a junior I am mentoring, 'hey, lets get lunch' and know that it will be interpreted as 'let's get lunch.' They will know that inquiries about interests, family, career plans, are to be taken at face value as overtures to discussion and consistent with an appropriate professional relationship. A male colleague with whom I am attending a conference can be confident that when I say: "OK, let's meet back here at the bar before dinner and review where we are," that i mean exactly that. A male colleague can feel confident that I am not going to view any discussion with me as some sort of potential romantic or sexual flirtation.
But any woman in the workplace must have in the back of her mind that I am a predator. It doesn't matter that I am happily married, 50, and have (to the best of my knowledge) a sterling reputation as sans peur es sans raproche. Nor can either of us casually disregard the potential for gossip by others with honi soit qui mal y pense. The ugliness that is created by men who harass in the workplace, whether as a deliberate exercise of power or from cluelessness and privilege poisons the genuine effort to treat women in the same way we treat men in the professional world.
I wish I knew a good way to address that, other than to call people out when it happens and keep trying to walk the walk. But it makes every effort I make to treat my female colleagues in the way I treat my male colleagues harder, as I and my female colleagues labor under the cloud created by the host of bad actors that make it not only rational, but necessary for women to view the same invitation I would extend to a male colleague with trepidation.
1. I do think there is a real difference between the predators like Harvey Weinstien and Roger Ailes, who appear to delight in deliberately exercising their power, and those like Charlie Rose and Glenn Thrush, who appear to be genuinely puzzled that their conduct was somehow wrong. Not that I excuse the results, but the pathology is different and in trying to address any condition it is always appropriate to understand the mechanism of action.
You know those articles that are all about how just because a woman is polite to you does not mean she is flirting. Or, more relevant, how the woman behind the counter who is nice to you is just doing her job and is not hitting on you. Lots of guys seem clueless on this point. That sadly seems to be the case for a bunch of these guys with positions of power (or sometimes even not so much power). Women are being nice and interested because they are like "Oh, important career networking/being friendly with colleague" while guy seems to think "oh wow, she is totally in to me." Worse, these guys apparently think that (a) as long as they take "no" at some point (since, y'know, the first "no" is really just being coy -- right?) that no harm is done and everything is cool.
Worse, some of these guys then get resentful that woman "led them on" by being all friendly and professional and stuff. Guys, NO ONE LED YOU ON!! Do not retaliate by spreading all kinds of rumors or you will definitely, unambiguously graduate to Grade A scum.
Guys, do not assume that a female colleague is into you. Srsly. I know some people (mostly guys) think it is unfair or unnatural for people (by which they generally mean guys) not to socialize at work and treat their work environment as an opportunity to find romance. Just don't. Really. Just. Don't. Everyone will be much happier. The likelihood that you are forgoing a positive relationship experience for both you and the target of your affection is extremely small relative to the likelihood that you are creating an utterly awkward situation that will poison the workplace and may well cause some woman considerable emotional stress.
2. Over the course of my career, I have labored mightily to fight gender stereotypes. I have been pleased and privileged to have been mentored by a number of women. I have attempted to pay it forward by mentoring young folks -- women and men -- who are interested in what I have to teach. In a number of cases, this has resulted in close personal friendships.
When I read about these incidents, I feel tainted. It makes it that much harder for those of us men who are trying to do their jobs and actually eliminate (or at least reduce) gender inequality in the workplace. Because no matter what my marital status, or past history, any woman must have lurking in the back of her mind that I might unexpectedly turn into some sort of ravening uncontrolled sex beast. Worse, both any woman I am mentoring and me personally must be aware that perfectly normal interactions with my male colleagues may be viewed with suspicion by our colleagues because the colleague in this case is a woman.
This is why I totally hate "the Rock Test" or any other advice that is "just treat women like you would men." It is simply false. I can say to one of my male colleagues, including a junior I am mentoring, 'hey, lets get lunch' and know that it will be interpreted as 'let's get lunch.' They will know that inquiries about interests, family, career plans, are to be taken at face value as overtures to discussion and consistent with an appropriate professional relationship. A male colleague with whom I am attending a conference can be confident that when I say: "OK, let's meet back here at the bar before dinner and review where we are," that i mean exactly that. A male colleague can feel confident that I am not going to view any discussion with me as some sort of potential romantic or sexual flirtation.
But any woman in the workplace must have in the back of her mind that I am a predator. It doesn't matter that I am happily married, 50, and have (to the best of my knowledge) a sterling reputation as sans peur es sans raproche. Nor can either of us casually disregard the potential for gossip by others with honi soit qui mal y pense. The ugliness that is created by men who harass in the workplace, whether as a deliberate exercise of power or from cluelessness and privilege poisons the genuine effort to treat women in the same way we treat men in the professional world.
I wish I knew a good way to address that, other than to call people out when it happens and keep trying to walk the walk. But it makes every effort I make to treat my female colleagues in the way I treat my male colleagues harder, as I and my female colleagues labor under the cloud created by the host of bad actors that make it not only rational, but necessary for women to view the same invitation I would extend to a male colleague with trepidation.
no subject
Date: 2017-11-21 05:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-11-22 01:02 am (UTC)